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6 Stages Of America’s Decline

America In Decline Articles

6 Stages Of America’s Decline
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2008-2011

Articles May Be Reproduced Only With Authorship of Br Nathanael Kapner
& Link To Real Zionist News (SM)

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The Zionist-Jewish banking cabal — led by the Rothschilds who own the Federal Reserve Bank, and, by extension, much of America — are hell-bent on creating a One World Government.

Any sovereign “Christian nation,” such as America, (at least what it was historically), is an obstacle to their plans and must be brought down.

There are 6 stages engineered by Zionist Jews leading to America’s subjugation:

America’s Cultural Decline: This is being achieved by destroying and debasing our social, moral, and intellectual foundations via the Zionist owned & dominated mass media, the Internet, and through ever more toxic, corrupted government school and college curricula.

The drowning of America with illegal aliens and the accompanying ‘multiculturalism’ – along with the promotion of the homosexual/lesbian agenda – are the finishing touches to a once robust and proud culture.

America’s Industrial Decline: This has been achieved through so-called ‘free’ and ‘open trade,’ (which was not in the purview of America’s founding fathers), the loss of manufacturing and production base & services, and the exporting of countless American jobs to Second and Third World countries.

America’s Financial Decline: This has been achieved through USURY and the Federal Reserve Bank’s outrageous, un-Constitutional total control of the US money supply. With little remaining industrial base and skyrocketing unemployment & foreclosure rates, America is literally insolvent.

The so-called bailout (theft) of about $2 trillion from taxpayers by a cowardly, treasonous Congress, is being used to primarily fund chosen Zionist Jewish banksters and their utterly corrupt institutions. The $1.5 quadrillion in worthless derivatives guarantees the full financial destruction of America.

America’s Political Decline: This has been achieved through decades of the most massive political fraud in the history of ‘representative government.’

Since the coup/murder of JFK, America has been played for a sucker by NWO Globalists, ultimately run by The City of London Jewish banking-families, who have brilliantly kept American voters chasing their tails and illusions of ‘change’ via a succession of sock-puppet ‘presidents’ for decades.

The Obama-Emanuel White House will complete the job of installing overt fascism in a once-free and formerly ‘United’ States.

America’s Dollar Decline: This has been achieved through a number of economic and financial manipulations. Expect hyperinflation to be next … accompanied by probable stagflation as consumer demands withers to severe lows.

America’s Influence Decline: This has been achieved easily through the Iraq and Afghan wars, the mass use of nuclear weapons & their depleted uranium residues, and the genocide of at least four million human beings since the first Gulf ‘War’ alone.

THESE 6 AREAS OF DECLINE will become more pronounced in 2009. This will pave the way for the end of America’s sovereignty & open the door for a North American Union in which the elitist bankers will conduct their ‘governance’ – the latest slogan of the One World Government boys.

Zionist Jews Are Now In Control Of America.
And The Planned Fall Of America Is In Full Swing.


For More See: Is A USA Depression Coming? Click Here

And: America Falls – Germany Rises Click Here

And: A Christian America! – Not A Jewish America! Click Here

And: The Jewish Debasing Of Christian Culture Click Here

And: Obama’s War Plans & Forced ‘Home Service’ Click Here

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Brother Nathanael @ November 17, 2008


  1. admin November 17, 2008 @ 11:50 pm

    Hi Everybody –

    Well, this article took much time to put together, especially the pictures. I wanted to “accentuate” with “bullits” each of the 6 stages of America’s decline. So, finding the right pictures took much time.

    The lead picture took over an hour to compile & format. I am a perfectionist and it has to be just right.

    I am strongly of the opinion that America’s downfall is definitely being engineered by the Jews who now fully own and run Amerca. I chose the picture of the Jew Bernanke strutting in arrogance in stark contrast to George Washington humbling himself before Christ in prayer & supplication. What a difference between the Jew & the Christian!

    Everywhere one goes now in every sphere in America, like dog doo, one steps into a Jew. 47 Jews are now in Congress and they will legislate for homosexuals, lesbians, more immigration, more bailouts, more war, more abortion — if it is ANTI CHRISTIAN, then the ANTI CHRISTIAN Jews on Capital Hill will vote for it — nail after nail after nail into America’s coffin.

    I grew up with Jews. I attended an upper middle class synagogue which was run by Bnai Brith. I know how Jews think, how they act, and what their political agenda is. The Jew hates Christianity, hates the Lord Jesus Christ, and will not even think about being anything but a JEW. And the Jew looks out for his own interests FIRST – NOT America’s.

    I firmly believe that the Jewish banksters, Jacob Rothshild at the head, are engineering America’s destruction. This will pave the way for a North American Union in which the Jews will do their “governance” to the sacrifice of our soverign nation and our Christian heritage. What can we do to stop the Jews who run & RUIN our once Christian nation?

    All we can do is pray. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can do the impossible.

    On another note, I wish to thank those of you who have donated to the cause of Real Jew News. We, and I say “we,” are growing every day. More and more NEW readers are coming on to Real Jew News every day, writing to me how excited they are to see some TRUTH being reported. And we are doing it together everyone – this is a community effort. It has to be to succeed. Christ is pleased to see His people working together. I am a team player and love it when like minded ones all pull together.

    Real Jew New is OUR cause, OUR mission, OUR way of telling the Jews that we will not roll over and play dead for them. – And I love you all and I am honored to be supported by all of you. +Brother Nathanael

  2. Kevin November 18, 2008 @ 3:25 am

    Beautiful picture of Washington!

  3. joshua November 18, 2008 @ 3:37 am

    Your picture of Saddam reminded me of the transcript of the U.S. Ambassadors visit to Iraq, where he said he thought $25 a barrel for oil would be fair…

  4. joshua November 18, 2008 @ 3:42 am

    … and the Ambassador (April Glaspie) then assured Saddam that the U.S. would not have ANY PROBLEM if Iraq were to attack Kuwait and punish them for their slant drilling theft of Iraq’s oil !

  5. Hoff November 18, 2008 @ 4:03 am

    Hello all. I just added this to my video and book library blog. I think this can be a good place to pick up news, articles, interesting blogs or whatever good people might find while surfing. The video library is very popular, I think this is a winning concept. Many can’t be bothered to read a book, but a video they can handle and take the time to watch.

    Blogs, news, articles, etc

    Do you have an article, news or a interesting blog you would like to share? Then this is the place. A short text, preferably a short headline, or five, top ten sentences and the link.

  6. Erik November 18, 2008 @ 5:05 am

    I agree with everything you say, except that it is not only the zionist jews that are to blame. I have to admit they are a big chunk of the illuminati, but there is also European aristocratic families like the queen of England and Holland, and many secret societies like the Knights of Malta, the Freemasons, the Rotary which are mixed up with all kinds of different races. I’m pretty sure you have also Asian and Middle East factions of secret societies too.

    It is one thing too blame the zionists, but the illuminati comprise many factions, and by pointing the finger at one faction the rest of the illuminati can continue their business unhindered.

    It is the illuminati that is to blame for all the ills of the world, and the zionist is only a part of this big club.

  7. Erik November 18, 2008 @ 5:23 am

    Greed and corruption, and the oaths of the secret societies are the real causes behind the power of the illuminati.

  8. Steve November 18, 2008 @ 5:34 am

    I really appreciate your web site! Not many have articulated the problem of Zionism as you have.

    I read somewhere about Obama referring to his grandparents as “those White folks” showing the identity crises people of mixed race have.

  9. Hoff November 18, 2008 @ 6:19 am

    British MI5: Israeli PM Worked for the Kremlin’s Intelligence

    A British counterespionage unit has opened archival files testifying that many Zionist leaders and organizations were suspected by the British of cooperation with Soviet intelligence. One of the most outstanding people mentioned in this connection in the MI5 files was the sixth prime Minister of Israel, Menahem Begin (1977-1983). The British were secretly tracking and keeping a close watch on him almost from the very beginning of his political career. The data on this is stored in the archives of British counterespionage, in files numbered KV 2/2251-2252…


  10. WLindsayWheeler November 18, 2008 @ 8:18 am

    I think it do well to reconsider America as a Christian nation. A good majority of the FFofA were Masons. The American Revolution was fomented by Masons. Thomas Paine who was one of the biggest formulators of public discourse, even though not a mason himself, wrote a book on Freemasonry. Much of what he spouted was Masonic.

    Look on the back of the dollar bill. It is all there for you; the masonic symbols and this slogan “Novus Ordo Secularum”.

    Fr. Seraphim Rose wrote a book called “Nihilism, the Root of Revolution in the Modern Age”.

    The program of Nihilism “requires the destruction of every element of this Old Order”. He writes:
    “The Nihilist Revolution stands against authority and order, against Truth, against God”.

    What are the two most important constituent parts of true conservativism? Authority and Order. Both of these fundamental truths have been under attack.

    Fr. Seraphim Rose points out that common to communism, fascism and the New Age movement is their attempt of building a New Order. It is about dismantling the old, deconstructing it and replacing it with egalitarianism, individualism and materialist capitalism throughout.

    America is a Novus Ordo. In this regard, everything about America is erroneous. The FFofA specifically wanted a new order and rejected the Old Order of their home countries. The basis of the American Revolution is Nihilism.

    America’s destruction was planted at the beginning. St. Thomas Aquinas said, “A little error in the beginning leads to a greater error in the end”. The Jews are only taking over their creation. Why shouldn’t they. They created it, it is theirs. Americanism is a grave pernicious error.

    Furthermore, the motto of America “E pluribus Unum” is the essence of globalization and the New World Order. The Old Order is based on “Ex Uno plures”.

  11. Deacon Elurby November 18, 2008 @ 8:43 am


    There are two aspect to
    understanding the ROOT
    CAUSES of America’s
    decline and impending


    Planned Destruction of America

    and CULTURAL:

    Rush Limbaugh is a Kook

    If you study both of my
    reports, you’ll understand
    what the ROOT CAUSES of
    the decline and fall of
    America – of the West – are.



    Left-wing Jews are the ARCHITECTS
    of America’s – the West’s – financial
    and cultural collapse:

    Marxian Jews’ Evil Works

  12. JOHN JONES JR. November 18, 2008 @ 9:45 am





  13. America, the Beautiful November 18, 2008 @ 9:55 am

    Test post again… 🙂

  14. America, the Beautiful November 18, 2008 @ 10:05 am

    Good, it worked!

    Brother Nathanael, please explain.

    You say, as we know, you grew up as a Jew and you know how they think. I believe you.

    But do you actually believe that they KNOW their anti-Christian actions will destroy the fabric of this nation?

    Do they actually believe that this nation could stand for one decade WITHOUT a Christian foundation.

    Surely, this nation has had a strong anti-Christian, atheistic agenda foisted on it for the past 60 years; with, outlawing prayer in schools, legalizing abortion on demand, and continually attempting to enshrining the homosexual lifestyle within the U.S. Constitution.

    As you know, we have been encouraged NON-STOP to engage in promiscuity, sex at any cost (even the life of an innocent preborn), child pornography and general egotistical self-absorption at every level.

    Their ‘remedy’ for the mental illness and all of this excess evil causes: prescription drug advertising (again non-stop) . . . until finally we are so drugged and so debilitated — the Thief steals are Blessing right out from under us.

    Do they REALLY think this nation could stand WITHOUT a Christian foundation.

    It simply cannot.

    But when this God-given and Blessed Country finally falls, what a crash will be heard round world. At THAT point ALL free nations will suffer untold persecution and death, for the STANDARD-BEARER has died.

    Israel will be the FIRST to go into the Abyss.

    Maybe the Secular Jews better stop and consider who they have ‘alligned’ themselves with.

  15. WLindsayWheeler November 18, 2008 @ 10:30 am

    “Although Sombart’s first writings on America after 1904 concerned the proletariat, within seven years he would describe the United States as “a land of Jews” (Sombart, 1962: 50).”

    Why shouldn’t they rule? Protestantism is like a fifth column for Judiasm. Protestantism is Judiazed Christianity. And the correlation between Protestant capitalism and the Jewish capitalism found its perfect union in America. The Novus Ordo is Capitalism. The Jews do rule their own country. Why shouldn’t they? It’s their creation.

  16. admin November 18, 2008 @ 11:10 am

    W LindsayWheeler –

    Please prove that ALL the founding fathers were Masons. You are wrong, most of them were Christians or Deists – BUT ONE THING FOR SURE – they ALL HAD A ‘CRISTIAN WORLD VIEW.’ +BN

  17. TadSkeptical November 18, 2008 @ 11:44 am

    In a book a I read it was stated that the 7th Day Adventists thought the US was the Beast of Revelation when they were murdering off the Native Tribes & stealing their land.

    The US may be nothing more than a Beast Kingdom, the one that speaks like a Lamb but acts like a Dragon, or Mystery Babylon?

  18. Deacon Elurby November 18, 2008 @ 11:47 am



    Regarding Jews’ culpability, there are
    many truth-telling Jews like Brother

    Rabbi Lapin is a truth-telling Jew who
    warns how Jews are destroying America.

    If you read between his lines, you find
    that he’s arguing that Jews in Germany
    had set up the same social/cultural
    conditions we’re witnessing today in
    Western nation-states to foment anti-
    Jewish sentiment in the form of Nazism:

    “You’d have to be a recent immigrant from
    Outer Mongolia not to know of the role
    that people with Jewish names play in the
    coarsening of our culture. Almost every
    American knows this. It is just that most
    gentiles are too polite to mention it.”
    -Rabbi Daniel Lapin (2006)


  19. Richiemagoo November 18, 2008 @ 12:32 pm

    Ultimately, the real blame rests with the average American citizen- for had they practised the tenets of Christianity and sought to maintain their God-given rights and freedom, they would be un-rule-able by schools, the media, politicians or anyone else.

    Instead, the majority of our citizens have been bought-off by their own immorality- seeking to use the power of the corrupt state to enforce their own ideals on their neighbors, while picking their pockets- not realizing it was their own pockets and ideals which they were also destroying by giving such power to the state.

    That, and the pursuit of hedonism, has made us slaves. And that is exactly what socialism/fascism is: Universal, monopolistic slavery, where the all-powerful state is the master.

    RIP America

  20. Richiemagoo November 18, 2008 @ 12:40 pm

    …On Founding Fathers being “masons.” “Prove it,” challenges Br N:

    Even if they were, it appears to me that the sinister aspects of Masonry and their involvement in the quest for NWO, did not begion until sometime in the mid 1800’s- long after the times of the Founding Fathers.

    Had the Founders been involved in what Masonry is today, no doubt, they would never have given us a Constitution that is based on Biblical law; a Constitution which has been the primary hinderance of those who are setting up the NWO.

    Had it not been for our Founders, there is no doubt that the Zionist NWO would have been established long ago.

  21. America, the Beautiful November 18, 2008 @ 1:14 pm

    Deacon Elurby,

    I guess what I am continually wondering is, Why would a culture set ITSELF up to be cannabalized?

    It seems suicidal or something, doesn’t it?

    Why, after realizing that the United States of America, founded on Christian principles, is the ONLY nation on earth that not only welcomes you, but encourages you to prosper and flourish all the while enjoying freedoms and liberties NOT granted under other governments?

    WHAT in the world would behoove a culture or ethnic group to CHANGE that basic premise?

    I see only one thing.

    DECEPTION. And we all know that Deception is a game the evil one knows all to well.

    Yes, we must continue to PRAY for our Jewish brothers and sisters — that they may not perish for lack of insight to the Divine Truth of Jesus Christ, the world’s Messiah.

  22. WLindsayWheeler November 18, 2008 @ 1:54 pm

    Steven Sora, author of “The Secret Societies of the American Elite”, writes:

    “Masonic influences started the war and Masonic connections tipped the balance toward the Revolutionary side. When the war was finally over, Masonry played the single most important role in creating the new nation”. (pg 99)

    One may do a google search “Founding Fathers” and Masonry. There is all sorts of info on that. Out of the group ten are masons, 3 with probable cause, one was a humanist and 2 were advocates. Leaving 4 with no connection to masonry.

    Albert Pike’s massive tome “Morals and Dogmas of Freemasony” have massive references, quotes and teachings from the Kabala.

    Masonry formed much of the mental milieu of America. Ever heard of “Don’t talk about politics and relgion”? Well, that is a Masonic rule of their lodges.

  23. jonah November 18, 2008 @ 3:02 pm

    Great article Brother Nathanael-
    You hit it perfectly- this is exactly what is happening to Amerika.


  24. WLindsayWheeler November 18, 2008 @ 4:17 pm

    In the book, “America is Also Jewish”, Richard Goldhurst writes, “The Puritans, who defied an Anglo-Catholic king found the tenets for their faith in the old Testament. In fact, they often called their religion a “New Judaism”. They believed that they, like the Jews centuries before them, had a covenant with God….

    “The Puritans were not trying to become Jews. But they were Judaizing by drawing on the history of Biblical Jews for the parallels which fitted their own mission. They drw on the Jews because in the Old Testament God chose the Jews as His people, and the Puritans felt God had chosen them to do His work in this New Worl. They so devoutly believe they had a mission that they invested New England and all America with the idea that it, too, had a Messianic purpose for all men”.

    This Messianic purpose is “fixing the world” which is the cabalistic Tikkun Olam. This is why Pres. Woodrow Wilson overthrew the Monarchies of Europe and replaced them with democracies; the same with Pres. George Bush, overthrowing the Iraqi regime in order to implement democracy.

    Puritanism formed the American Mentality. The Asian Times columnist Spengler glorifies that the Protestant Reformation was instigated by Jewish Rabbis in order to break apart Christendom. Protestantism is the Jewish fifth column. Fundamentalist Protestantism is a Judaized Christianity. Together with Masonry, another Jewish instigated movement, these two created America. America is an extremely Jewish country. It is itself the forerunner to the Global Novus Ordo.

  25. Nick - Soldier in the Army of Christ November 18, 2008 @ 4:44 pm

    Who is Israel

  26. Visitor November 18, 2008 @ 6:26 pm

    This is a way to reach some solution which is unknown to the majority: manufacture a problem and present a counter-action. Based on this action-reaction principle, you arrive at the solution envisioned in the first place.

  27. Fr. John November 18, 2008 @ 6:38 pm

    A few things to remember. Masonry (as it existed before the rise of the Illuminati- founded July 1, 1776 by Adam Weishaupt) was a far more FRATERNAL guild-based organization. It was only as the Masons were infiltrated by the Illuminati to MAKE IT THEIR OPERATIONAL ARM, that the ‘secret rituals’ the rise of the ‘demonic’ elements (from Kabbalistic Judaism) arose. So, if one says the FFA were ‘Masons’ it is disingenuous to equate that with the Masonic ORGANIZATION of the 20th Century.

    The Founding Fathers and Christianity – you need to read two books- John Eidsmoe’s ‘Christianity and the Constitution- The Faith of the Founding Fathers;” and Michael Farris’ “From Tyndale to Madison: How the Death of an English Martyr Led to the American Bill of Rights ” This should shut the mouths of the godless about this TRUTH.

    Secondly, Communism is and was a JEWISH World View. Cf my blog entry for some marvelous analysis of the Bolshevik mindset:

    Thirdly, the picture you used Br. N, of ‘Shrub, JR. is PRICELESS, but you have cut off the best part. He is looking through binocs with the lens caps on- a TOTALLY STAGED PUBLICITY Photo, no one caught at the time.

    Truly, the Deicides are the spawn of their father [John 8:44] and only use the ‘stupid goyim’ for their nefarious plans.

  28. America, the Beautiful November 18, 2008 @ 7:49 pm

    Father John, I think the guy with the binoculars is Rumsfeld…at least it looks more like him.

  29. paul van den akker November 18, 2008 @ 8:10 pm

    Dear brother Nathaniel you know what is happening, lets read carefully relevations of John chapter 6. Well, the Red horse we know already(Bush dynasty) and now after the red , the black horse(Obama) appears together with the pale one the dead himself in the person of Rahm Emanuel.

    he will also appear as the 8 King , and the rest of that story you can all read in your bible Revelations of John. so Fasten your seatbells and stay In your love for Jesus The Christ.

    I will pray daily for all the goodwilling and loving people of America. for he is not come to give us peace but, the sworth, stay strong. Paul van den Akker dordrecht The Netherlands.

  30. admin November 18, 2008 @ 9:11 pm

    Dear paul van den akker –

    The Revelation of St John opens in the first verse with the annoucnement of
    “things *shortly* to come.”

    Most of the book of The Revelation has to do with the impending destruction of the Jewish polity centered in Jerusalem which Titus took down in 70 AD and the elevation of the Kingdom of God through the preaching of the Gospel by the apostolic band.

    Thus I disagree completely with your “up to date” forced interpretation.

    But thanks for your well wishes — always welcome! +bn

  31. Haden November 18, 2008 @ 9:31 pm

    Excellent post Fr.John. Masonry has many Jewish overtones, but if you ask a Rabbi about these Masonic rites you will be told the Masons are misinterpreting Torah.

    Masonry was not dominated by Jews until more recently in history, it likely started as a way to bring Jews and Christians together in society. This was not always sinister. Zionism, ‘The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit’, these are terrible tendencies that have metastasized within Judaism… they have become the norm among the elite but they are not universal tendencies among all Jews.

  32. David November 19, 2008 @ 4:21 am

    They do not want America standing anywhere accept in the Shadow of Canada and as quiet as a mouse.

    For their NWO schemes can not go forward as long as America is strong.

    Think back to 1963 and since then at all the things done to America by its own govt. a pattern emerges .

    So we know they plan to take America down there are many ways they could achieve this.

    North American union the people refused it

    Bankrupting into the Third world is now being tried. But now numerous Patriot militias have grown up around them.
    I predict next they will use a major perhaps with Russia. when the Russians attack stand down orders will be in place.

    The Bottom line is America stands in the way of the NWO advancing.

  33. Michael K. November 19, 2008 @ 8:25 am

    I strongly agree with Brother Nathanael on the issue of forced interpretations of Revelation to support modern polity. This use of mysticism is one of the key ways in which the common sense of our historical American and Christian culture is being attacked and undermined.

    The creation of apocalyptic fervor and messianic expectation in the general public may lead to a group state of mind which leads the people to voluntarily cast off from their moorings in tradition and Law, and embrace a “destiny” cynically prepared for them by Talmudic Jews and diabolical Luciferian elitists.

    Ultimately, the Judaized Protestant is deceived into accepting the destruction of Christians, and Christian civilization as pre-ordained and unavoidable, perhaps even beneficial in the long run.

    In fact the opposite is obviously true if one recognizes messianic fervor as an historically Jewish religious teaching, rooted in the Jewish desire to see their unique prophesy of someday ruling the world under their Jewish Messiah fulfilled.

  34. Jim DeTexas November 19, 2008 @ 9:10 am

    2 All,

    I think the reason for the self destruction of America and the rest of the civilized world can be found in the study of

    “Neuro Linguistic Programming”.


  35. Jim DeTexas November 19, 2008 @ 9:10 am

    2 All,

    How to Control Americans—thought control, mind control, disinformation and other naughty things

    Learn The Words And Phrases That Control The Thoughts Of Others


  36. Richiemagoo November 19, 2008 @ 9:18 am

    Re: Comment by Admin:

    A preterist view of Revelation completely strips the book of all meaning. For if it had merely been speaking of 70AD, then we’d have to admit that Jesus has failed to return; and/or that the Kingdom Of God must be extant upon the earth now- which, if it were, would make God out to be utterly impotent, because clearly, the forces of evil are presently prevailing.
    Quite the contrary though- in reality, we see the prophesied worldwide events spoken of in that book coming to pass before our very eyes right now- and some already fulfilled only in the 20th century (mass death and destruction)-which was the bloodiest century in human history on a worldwide basis.

  37. admin November 19, 2008 @ 9:52 am

    To Richmagoo – You have no understanding of “apocalyptic” language of the Holy Scriptures.

    In order to understand The Revelation of St John, one has to be THOUROUGLY STEEPED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT from which much of the imagery in his Revelation mirrors.

    The “coming of Christ,” the “Kindgom of God,” is FIRST realized in The Church which Christ established in its New Covenant fullness upon His ascension. Of course, the “Church” began with the creation of the angels and continued as the “Israel of God” throughout the Old Testament, but the fullness of times brought in the realization of the “Body of Christ” in its New Covenant fullness wherein the Church is Christ’s incarnated presence on earth. But these things take years to grasp especially those who are of an evangelical “Protestant” bent.

    The Gospel of the Kingdom was preached to “all the world” said St Paul in Colossians, thus establishing the “Kingdom of God” on earth, PRIOR to the 2nd Coming.

    One must read the Orthodox Christian Church fathers to really grasp the Holy Scriptures. Yours is a “fast food” interpretation. +Brother Nathanael

  38. Fr. John November 20, 2008 @ 8:03 am

    RichieMagoo- did you know that one of the better (if not the Best) of the ‘preterist interpretations’ of the Book of Revelation from a PRotestant is David Chilton’s “Days of Vengeance”?

    Did you also know that, before his death, Mr. C was actively seeking to be catechized into the Orthodox faith, and had come to many of his conclusions in that book, by reading deeply of the Fathers?

    So, if one is looking to see where better minds have gone, it is always a good thing to see where they were going, before they went to meet the Lord.

  39. WLindsayWheeler November 20, 2008 @ 8:46 am

    “This is our time–to put our people back to work and open doors of opportunity for our kids; to restore prosperity and promote the cause of peace; to reclaim the American Dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth–that out of many, we are one”. ~~~President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama

    Notice this “out of many, we are one”? That is motto of this country “E pluribus Unum”. President Obama is fully an American, thoroughly in tune with the purpose of America; its Jewish Masonic Bolshevist mission.

  40. KathJuliane November 20, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

    Greetings in our Lord Jesus from No Cal in US of Talmudistan:

    The Place of the Apocalypse of Jesus Christ
    In the Holy Orthodox Church

    Michael K said “I strongly agree with Brother Nathanael on the issue of forced interpretations of Revelation to support modern polity. This use of mysticism is one of the key ways in which the common sense of our historical American and Christian culture is being attacked and undermined.”

    You are a solid “Byzantine” Christian, eyes towards heaven, boots firmly on the ground.

    Absolutely correct and excellent commentary re: messianism and polity and other insights. In general, Protestanism adheres to the ‘literalist-grammatical’ exegesis of Scripture, and in our modernist, “reason alone” newspaper headline exegesis and “Left Behind theology” (popular Christian Zionist fiction genre), is entirely impoverished in the basics of the different forms of archaic literary genre and their various purposes to begin with. The Holy Bible is a ‘library’ of distinct inspired books and literary styles united by one Divine message and two prophetic (teaching-speaking forth for God) themes about the Covenant of Faith/Grace: the Message of the Divine Messiah, and the Message of the Eschaton-the Last Things, when Christians look forward to not only the complete regeneration or restoration of Man through Christ to his first-created nature after the Resurrection, but a complete renewal of the entire Cosmos or Creation to its original condition before the Fall of Adam.

    While it is one Book collated together through the Holy Spirit that organically and holistically tells the great story of Salvation, it is a considerable mistake for people to read it like a novel. Something else to remember, dear readers, is that regardless of a fair level of literacy in the ancient societies, they were still a culture of ‘orality’ and virtually all writings were meant to be read or presented in public to an audience, including Scripture.

    As +BN pointed out before in other posts on the authority of Patristic tradition, in a certain sense the OT is “closed” for Christians especially along the Messianic theme, as many things were “shadows and types” that pointed forward then in the history of Old Israel to the Incarnation of Jesus the Messiah and the establishment of the “New Israel”, the Ecclesia [“assembly of called-out ones Israel”] of Christ called out from the old order and old government of ancient Israel. These “called out ones” [followers of the Way or Christians] are specifically titled “The Twelve Tribes of Israel” in James 1:1: “To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad…” implying the “New Israel” under apostolic government.

    This is one of the general epistles of the Apostle James the Just. ‘Scattered abroad’ (~diaspora~) originally referred to Jews in exile, but James applies it to the Ecclesia-Hebrew or Gentile Christians alike-on pilgrimage.

    Old and New “Testament” (Witness) could also be called “Old Covenant of Abraham [“Faith”-seeing in the far future that the Divine Seed or Son would come from his loins as God’s free, “unconditional” gift to Man] and “New Covenant of Abraham [“Grace”-complete fulfillment of God’s covenant with Abraham with the coming of Messiah, sealed by Jesus’ own Divine Blood.]

    As the Apostle Paul very clearly described, the written Law of God as given to Moses and as it was corporately given to Old Israel, is, to this day, corporately binding on the unrepentant Jews, as historically the unrepentant portion of Israel was the tribe of Judah, specifically the Pharisees, upon whom Jesus pronounced his grand indictment of condemnatory “Woes”. The direct heirs of the Pharisees are the modern Jews, as their Talmud very clearly states that the Rabbinate and the teachings of Hillel the Babylonian that survived the destruction of Jerusalem are the same as the ancient Pharisees.

    Paul also states that the Law of Moses did not abrogate the Covenant of Abraham as it was made 400+ years prior to Sinai, and it was made with Abraham the Hebrew at the age of 75 while he was still uncircumcised, therefore Abraham is the father of the circumcised and uncircumcised multitudes, and in Christ by grace we are full heirs of the entire Covenant of Abraham. Paul then states that for circumcised and uncircumcised Christians, the written Law of Moses becomes the “tutor and guide” to keep us aware of our own sinfulness and fallenness, and convicts us so that we keep turning to God in humility to ask for mercy and forgiveness for our spiritual debts or “trespasses” against Him, in terms of the Law of Christ that we will be judged by.

    But for the unrepentant Jews, the written Law of Moses is what they will be judged by, and for the Jews the Law of Moses is a curse and condemnation of death because the Law must be kept perfectly not just by the individual Jew, but corporately by all Jews. The Law became the Curse for the Jews in particular and the people of Israel in general because of the corporate nature of the divine Law which made no provisions or remedies of atonement for the premeditated, intentional murder of an innocent man, just in purely human terms, the charge of ‘deicide’ notwithstanding. Jesus Christ was perfectly innocent, and because of His purest and most innocent blood on the heads of the Jews that they called down and swore to “let His blood be on our heads and that of our children”.

    Apostle Peter on the day of Pentecost very clearly underscores the corporate responsibility under the Law of Moses applying to all of Old Israel. In his preaching to “Jews from every nation under heaven”, he very clearly states: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God…you have taken into lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it….Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” Who is he speaking to? The entire polity of national Israel, whether in the Land or of the Dispersion, which was convicted of this evil under the corporate provisions of the Law of Moses.

    This corporate condition which every Jew was aware of, is further confirmed in Acts 2, for in the next passage of Scripture states “Now when they [the men of Israel] heard, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them “Repent, and let EVERY ONE OF YOU [MEN OF ISRAEL] BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS [INCLUDING THIS CRIME OF MURDER AND REGICIDE]; AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. FOR THE PROMISE [OF THE SAVIOR OF THE COVENANT OF ABRAHAM] IS TO YOU AND TO YOUR CHILDREN, AND TO ALL WHO ARE AFAR OFF, AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD WILL CALL.”

    What part of this do the clever Christian Zionists, Judeo-Christians, Judaizers, Jewish Roots, Jews for Jesus, apostate Noachides [“Righteous Gentiles” under Talmudic law] people not get?

    The men of Israel “were cut to the heart”, they knew right then they were convicted and condemned under the written Law of Moses for what the Jerusalem leadership, Sanhedrin and Pharisee Jews had done. Why? Because Jesus was the Messiah promised to ALL of the tribes of Israel, therefore ALL of the men of Old Israel were culpable for his intentional and malicious judicial murder by their representative Great Sanhedrin. Apostates and Judaizers anxious to come back under the Oral Law of modern Pharisee Rabbis [Babylonian Talmud] do, indeed, greatly risk coming under the curse of the written Law of Moses.

    The only “unconditional” portion of the Covenant of Abraham was the gift of the Savior Himself, and I’ll try to remember to develop this out some other time.

    Christians now live out the ongoing Eschaton, of which was also seen by the OT holy prophets and great seers, waiting for the glorious Second Coming of our Lord and King Jesus Christ on the Last Day, just as we have for 2,000 years. Jesus said “Of that day and hour no one knows, except for His Father in heaven”. As the great “knower of hearts”, the Lord certainly understood that fallen man can easily become lazy and complacent about the remembrance of God and repentance, and so the Christian task is to be spiritually ready at all times, like the parable of the virgins.

    It is the same Pharisee messianism today that infected the Pharisee/Zealot robber rebellions and false-messiah bands against Roman authority, despite the fact that God Almighty had decreed commencing with the Babylonian rule that Jerusalem would remain subject to Gentile kings until the coming of the Divine Messiah. The prophetic Book of Daniel precisely records the seer’s vision of the then future history of Old Israel under these monarchial governments (Babylon, Persia, the Macedonian Greek dynasties), until reaching the “beast different from the others”-the Roman Empire which at that time was not even yet a full autocracy in its ancient system of the Roman Res Publica, much different than the Asiatic monarchies in its form of government.

    Even at the time of Octavian Caesar Augustus, although the Senate had voted to make him life-long ~tyrannos~, his actual authority was ~Imperator~ supreme military ruler (comparable to a field marshall) of the ~imperium~ provinces those under direct martial law either because of frontier unrest, civil instability or, like Judea itself a province of geo-strategic importance and known treachery in Rome’s constant face off with the Parthian Empire thanks to Babylonian Jewry; while the Senate continued as a type of parliament that represented the stable, self-governing ~senatorium~ provinces like Egypt, Italy, and even Britannia at the time, until I believe it was Claudius that incited Boediccas’ [sp] rebellion. [She was in the right, by the way.]

    When the archaic Roman Empire was reformed as an autocracy, a few of the infamous pagan Caesars and none of Holy Byzantine Caesars and Tzars ever assumed what we consider an oriental style monarchy with a god-like kingship, or else absolute rule by “divine right” where the divinized king is above the law of the land that arose in the West, an element found in the Angle, Saxon, Frankish, Nordic and Teutonic law traditions of the Germanic kings.

    Setting the beautiful and elaborate court pomp aside, while the Byzantine Caesars much later assumed the title ‘basileos’ [king], and there is an Orthodox theology and liturgical tradition about the Holy Caesars as ‘Basileous, the Vicar of Christ the King’ [the legal civil title, not the ecclesiastical title later assumed by the Papacy], in general the Caesars maintained the idea of ‘rule by divine grace’, not ‘rule by divine right’, and considered themselves as the “first citizen” being the civil autocrat/”father” of the State.

    The Roman Empire was a complex society before and after Christianizing; however, one thing never set aside was the Roman love of “the Rule of [written] Law” in the Res Publica, rather than rule embodied in an actual king, which had been abolished by the early Romans centuries prior to Christ. Under Justinian’s ‘Symphonia’, Caesars, as laity, were also in submission to the Church and discipline, and answerable to the Pentarchy of Patriarchs in the Justinian ideal. In any case, the Slavic Tzars continued to be seen very much in this fashion as “the little Fathers” [terms of endearment] of their nations.

  41. KathJuliane November 20, 2008 @ 7:05 pm

    Air Talmud continuing to broadcast:

    The ‘patristic’ view of the Book of the Apocalypse from the Introduction in the Orthodox Study Bible:

    “Traditionally, The Apocalypse (also called Revelation) is considered to have been written by the Apostle John during a forced exile on the Isle of Patmos during the reign of the Emperor Domitian (AD 81-96). [It is anchored in place and time in the Church of the Apostles of “New Israel” in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, Jerusalem being the apostate ‘wife’ of God in the OT, and not Rome. Jerusalem was also a city built on seven mountains.]

    The major theme of the book is ‘Faithfulness in Tribulation’. ~Apokalypsis~ means the uncovering of something which has previously been hidden in this case the final triumph of the Kingdom of God. Since the final triumph of the Kingdom of God is assured, our faithfulness and loyalty now—before its full revelation—will lead to our ultimate victory. Subthemes include (1) divine judgment of human wickedness, and (2) the symbolic presentation of most major New Testament teaching concerning eschatology, the last things.

    Background Information:

    (1) ~The interpretation of Revelation.~ This ‘difficult book’ has been interpreted in many ways throughout the history of the Church. However, three basic approaches to its interpretation stand out:

    (a) The ~contemporaneous~ approach assumes that Apocalypse was written for a specific group of churches (1:11) with specific needs at a specific time. The work is therefore interpreted in terms of what it was meant to say to those to whom it was immediately addressed.
    (b) The ~futurist~ approach assumes that Apocalypse is a book of prophecy addressing a time far distant from its era of composition, predicting actual future events.
    (c) The ~idealist~ approach assumes that Apocalypse is an exposition of the ongoing relationships between God and His Kingdom, humanity, and Satan. It reveals things in the past, present, and future.

    These three approaches are not contradictory, but must be used in conjunction. Apocalypse is for those to whom it is addressed and, equally, for us all.

    (2) ~The liturgical use of Apocalypse in the Church.~ While see as canonical and inspired by God, Apocalypse is the only New Testament book not publicly read in the services of the Orthodox Church. This is partly because the book was only gradually accepted as canonical in many parts of Christendom. In addition, in the second and third centuries Apocalypse was widely twisted and sensationally misinterpreted, and the resulting erroneous teachings brought troublesome confusion to Christians. These issues, coupled with the presence of admittedly obscure and difficult passages, caused the Church to adopt a cautious [hint] approach to the interpretation of Apocalypse.

    However, millions of Christians have read, and still read Apocalypse and find great hope and consolation in this wonderful book.

    (3) ~The literary features of Apocalypse~. This book is unique within New Testament literature because it combines three important literary types: apocalyptic, prophetic, and epistolary writing.

    (a) The ~apocalyptic~ form was especially popular in Judaic and Christian literature from about 200 BC to AD 200. It abounds with features such as divine visions, vivid and even grotesque imagery, and symbolic numerology. Apocalyptic works offered hope and encouranged steadfastness to groups undergoing persecution or severe crisis. Revelation was for churches suffering persecution.
    (b) Apocalypse is distinctly ~prophetic~, speaking God’s word directly to the seven Asian church in their tribulation. It prophetically envisions the final victory of God over evil, including the last judgement and the establishment of His eternal Kingdom.
    (c) The ~epistolary~ character of Revelation is also pronounced. Fundamentally, it is an epistle, a letter, from an early Church leader and by tradition the last of the Apostles, to specific churches, full of exhortation directed toward their particular situations.

    (4)~ The historic backdrop of Apocalypse~. The early Church was convinced tha the Second Coming was near (1Cor. 729; 1 John 2:18). This expectation was no doubt heightened during the time of Emperor Domitian, as Christians were persecuted because of their refusal to worship this Emperor, who had declared himself a “god”. John’s vision was a reminder from God to the churches not to give in to their adversaries, but to hold fast to their faith. They were called to overcome, be it against pressure from the state, slander and harassment from the synagogues, false teachers within the Church, or the corruption resulting from prosperity.”

  42. KathJuliane November 21, 2008 @ 2:37 am

    Another broadcast from Air Talmud:


    Orthodox eschatology is “Amillennial”. Depending on their overall approach to the book of Apocalypse, interpreters are divided over whether this period is symbolic (Amillennial, yes) or historical (yes, too). Some interpreters thought Chapter 20 to be a recapitulation of the chapters of the Apocalypse before it. Though most did not, a few early Fathers and writers believed in a literal thousand years ~chilias~ binding of Satan and reign of Christ and the saints on earth (Apoc 20:2-7).

    The Church, however, authoritatively rejected this teaching at the Second Ecumenical Synod. In apocalyptic literature, numbers have symbolic significance. ‘Thousand’ is often used in the Scriptures to denote a long period of time, a great quantity, completion, perfection, thoroughness (Ps. 50:10; 2 Pet 3:8). Here, a ~thousand years~ (v. 2-7) is interpreted by the Fathers as the Church age, when Jesus reigns on earth in those who believe. It is that era between the First and Second Comings of Christ, also called the “last times”, when Satan’s effectiveness at deceit is restricted through the Cross and Resurrection of Christ, and the saints share in Christ’s earthly reign through the Church. For these persecuted Christians threatened by martyrdom, this is a consoling hope.

    The devil is thrown, shut and sealed into the pit for one thousand years (i.e., a long period of time) to allow the Church to be planted, to grow and to overcome, even in time of persecution and trial. The word “millennium” is synonymous with ~thousand years~ and carries with it no connotations of peace and prosperity, but with tribulations. The Bible teaches that Satan was bound at the completion of Christ’s saving work (Matt. 12:28, 29: Luke 10:17, 18; John 12:31, 32; Col 2:15). Satan is not totally inactive (Acts 5:3; 1 Cor 5:5; Eph 6:11), but he cannot deceive the nations by keeping the gospel from them. At the close of the Church age, Satan will be released for a while (vv. 7,8).

    At 20:7-10, the lengthy, indefinite ‘millennium’ period of Satan’s binding and the saints’ heavenly reign (vv 1-6) is concluded by the release of Satan and the final battle of history (probably the same as that of 19:14-21; 16:12-16). ~Gog and Magog~ (v. 8; see Ezek. 38, 39) are nations (generic) hostile to God’s people, gathered for one final assault directed against ~the beloved city~ (v. 9), New Jerusalem as the Church.

    As old Jerusalem, built on seven hills, was slated for destruction as an abomination in the Lord’s sight [and mentioned elsewhere in my posts it’s been independently documented in Josephus and the Talmud itself that the Jews knew the Temple and Jerusalem were to be destroyed], described as Egypt and Sodom where the Lord was crucified, and as the haughty apostate Scarlet Whore of Babylon in rebellion against God dressed in gaudy clothing, compared to the pure linen in which the Bride is arrayed in 19:8, then the ‘beloved city’ must be the Church as the “New Jerusalem” “New City of David” and “New Israel”. The Mother Church of the Apostles was (and still is) located on the southwest hill of Jerusalem originally named Mt. Sion, not Mt. Zion, which is the old City of David. Nor are Sion and Zion technically synonymous, although they’ve come to be used interchangeably, much to every one’s confusion especially during the Crusades.

    Other interpreters consider Archaic Rome to have been Babylon, but it is primarily a spiritual reality, a “mystery”, transcending concrete manifestations. For ~Babylon~ has always stood for rebellion against God (see Gen. 11:1-9; Babel=Babylon=Confusion): self-exaltation and idolatry. She is the ~mother~ of lit. “detestable things”, the prostitution of God’s creation. And she finds her life in a perverse eucharist, the death of those united with Life Incarnate symbolized by her drunkenness with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Christ.

    Very widespread at the present time among Protestants is the teaching about a ‘thousand-year kingdom’ of Christ on earth before the universal or last judgment; this teaching is known by the name of “chiliasm” (from the Greek ~chiliasmos~, a thousand years.). The essence of this teaching is as follows:

    Long before the end of the world, Christ will come again to earth to overcome Antichrist and resurrect ~only~ the righteous [and slightly adapted from Pharisee/Rabbinic tradition] to establish a new kingdom on earth in which the righteous, as a reward for their struggles and sufferings, will reign together with Him for the course of a literal 1,000 years, taking enjoyment of all the good things of temporal life. After this there will follow a second, universal resurrection of the dead, the universal judgment, and the universal and eternal giving of rewards.

  43. KathJuliane November 21, 2008 @ 2:39 am

    Air Talmud: Chiliasm Part II

    Such are the ideas of the chiliasts. The defenders of this teaching found themselves on the visions of the great seer of mysteries (John the Theologian) in the 20th Chapter of the Apocalypse. There it is said that an angel descended from heaven and bound Satan for a thousand years, and that the souls of those beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. ~This is the first resurrection (Apoc. 20:5). And when the thousand years are expired, satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations. (Apoc. 20:7-8). Soon there follows the judgment of the devil and of those who were deceived by him. The dead will be raised up and judged according to their deeds. ~And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire…This is the second death (Apoc. 20:15, 14). Upon those who have been resurrected in the first resurrection, however, the second death will have no power.

    Chiliastic views were spread in archaic times chiefly among heretics. However, they are also to be encountered in certain ancient Christian writers of the catholic Church, for example, Papias of Hierapolis, Justin the Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyons. In more recent times these views were resurrected in the Protestant sects; and finally, we see attempts in certain early “modernist” theologians of our times to introduce chiliastic ideas also into Orthodox theological thought.

    As has been indicated, in this Chiliastic teaching there are supposed to be two future judgments, one for resurrected righteous ones, and then a second, universal one; there are two future resurrections, first one of the righteous, and then another of sinners; there are two future comings of the Savior in glory; there is a future, purely earthly—even though blessed—reign of Christ with the righteous ones as a definite historical epoch.

    There are some serious difficulties with this teaching, first of which is that they conflict with our Lord Jesus’ own words and actions, as well as other witness. Christ never said that He would ascend more than once, nor make more than one descent to earth in the Last Day. The First Coming was Jesus’ Incarnation and Nativity; the Second Coming will be His glorious return as King of King and Lord of Lords with the heavenly host. He ascended into heaven as witnessed by the Apostles, and as they were gazing steadfastly after Him, two men in white [angels] state “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” Elsewhere Christ does not say “returns” but says that His return will be clearly visible to the entire world, which means no “secret return” and no “invisible return” for righteous believers.

    We Orthodox know that we are already living under our Lord’s reign while awaiting His return to establish the Kingdom in its fullness. We are taught not to stand idly ~gazing up into heaven~, but to prepare ourselves soberly as His servants, filled with the Holy Spirit, expecting His return, living lives of righteousness.

    Formally, this teaching is based on an incorrect understanding of the expression “the first resurrection”; while inwardly, its cause is rooted in the loss, among the masses of contemporary sectarianism, of faith in life after death, in the blessedness of the righteous in heaven (with whom they have no communion in prayer); and another cause, in certain sects, is to be found in utopian dreams for society hidden behind religious ideas and inserted into the mysterious images of the Apocalypse, as well as the Judaizing influence and the Zionizers adding their portions to the chiliastic, mystical, theological stew.

    It is not difficult to see the errors of the chiliastic interpretation of the 20th chapter of the Apocalypse. Parallel passages in Holy Scripture clearly indicate that the “first resurrection” signifies spiritual rebirth into eternal life in Christ through baptism, a resurrection through faith in Christ, according to the words ~Awake thou that sleepest and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light~ (Eph. 5:14). ~Ye are risen with Christ,~ we read many times from the Apostles (Col 3:1 and 2:12; Eph. 2:5-6).

    Think, Christians! These are contemporary epistles written to LIVING Christians of the day, not addressed to someone 1900 years later.

  44. KathJuliane November 21, 2008 @ 2:42 am

    Air Talmud Chiliasm Part III

    Simply put, baptism is our death, burial, and resurrection in union with Jesus Christ. It is a rite of passage, given by Christ to the Church, as an entrance into the Kingdom of God and eternal life.

    The Apostle Paul describes the promise of God in this “mystery”, as most Orthodox call it, most succinctly when he writes, “Therefore we were buried with Him through BAPTISM into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in NEWNESS of life (Rom. 6:4). To ~baptizo~ literally means to immerse, to put into. Historically until now, the Orthodox Church has baptized by triple immersion, “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

    In the Old Testament, baptism was pictured by the passage of God’s people with Moses through the Red Sea (1 Cor 10:1,2). John the Baptist, the last prophet of the Old Covenant, baptized in water unto repentance (Mark 1:4, Acts 19:4). John’s baptism was received by Jesus, who thereby transformed the water and baptism itself. In the New Covenant, baptism is the means by which we enter the Kingdom of God (John 3:5), are joined to Christ (Rom. 6:3), and are granted the remission of our sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

    From the start, the Church has understood baptism as:

    (1) ~A first and second dying~. Our first dying with Christ in baptism was our death with Him on the Cross. In the fourth century, St. Cyril of JERUSALEM instructed his new converts: “You were led by the hand to the holy pool of divine baptism…and each of you was asked if he believed in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. And you made that saving confession; you descended into the water and came up again three times. In the very same moment you died and were born.”

    The second death of baptism is continual—dying to sin daily as we walk in newness of life. Apostle Paul writes to the Colossians concerning baptism (Col 2:12) and concludes by saying, “Therefore put to death your members which are upon the earth [works of the flesh]: fornication, uncleanness, [evil] passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.”

    (2) ~The resurrection of righteousness~. This is our life in Christ, our new birth and entrance into God’s Kingdom (John 3:3), our “newness of life” (Rom 6:4)

    (3) ~An intimate and continual communion with God~. We are raised to new life for a purpose: union and communion with God. In this sense baptism is the beginning of eternal life. For this reason, Apostle Peter writes that baptism now saves us (1 Pet. 3:21)—it is not the mere removal of dirst from our bodies, but it provides us with “a good conscience toward God.”

    Proceeding from this by the thousand year reign one must understand the period of time from the very beginning of the kingdom of grace of the Church of Christ, and in particular of the triumphant Church of heaven, until the end of the world. The inauguration of the Church commenced the day of the Ascension under the new government of the Apostles, and its consecration by the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. The Church which is militant upon earth in essence also is triumphant in the victory performed by the Savior, but it is still undergoing battle with the “prince of the air” and of this world, a battle which will end with the defeat of Satan and the final casting of him into the lake of fire.

    The “second death” is the judgment of sinners at the Last Judgment. It will not touch those who ~have part in the first resurrection~ (Apoc 20:6); this means that those who are spiritually reborn in Christ AND purified by the grace of God in the Church will not be subjected to judgment, but will enter into the blessed life of the Kingdom of Christ. [Purified through daily struggle: Orthodoxy is not “once saved-always saved”. Instead, the Orthodox Christians believe that salvation is an ongoing process: “I was saved, I am being saved, I will be saved” by the Lord’s ongoing grace. [As for Kath J, I’ll probably be numbered with the goats. I’ve said it before-I’m a crabby, bad example of a Christian.]

    If it was possible at one time to express chiliastic ideas as ~private opinions~, this was only until the Ecumenical Church expressed its judgment about this. But when the Second Ecumenical Council (381), in condemning all the errors of the heretic Apollinarius, condemned also his teaching of the thousand year reign of Christ and introduced into the very Symbol of Faith, the Nicene Creed, the words concerning Christ: ~And His Kingdom will have no end~-it became no longer permissible at all for an Orthodox Christian to hold these opinions. Before the Second Ecumenical Synod, the heresy of Chiliasm was held, apart from the Montanists and Apollinarianism, by several other heresies as well—for example, the Ebionites, who were condemned as Judaizers by the Jerusalem Synod recorded in Acts. [The Gospel of John was written specifically to combat Judaizing and Gnostic heresies that penetrated the primitive Church.]

    Before the Second Synod, when Chiliasm was condemned, certain teachers of the Church were also sympathetic to this teaching such as St. Clement who was long in repose, but otherwise quite orthodox. In these cases, as said before, they were treated as ~private opinions~ not to be taught in the Church. Denouncing teachings and denouncing teachers were two overlapping matters: in the case of gross heresy, both the teachings and the teacher were anathematized, however if the teacher repented and sincerely denounced his own teachings at the Synod itself, generally the personal anathema was lifted at the time. If a heretic later abandoned his teachings and sought reconciliation, he was received back into the Church under penitential discipline.

    One of the leading Fathers of the Church was Blessed Augustine; see his discussion of this in ~The City of God~, XX. He connected the “binding” of the devil for a thousand years (Apoc 20:2) with the “binding” of the “strong man” in Mark 3:27 and also John 12:31, the words of Christ just before His Passion: ~Now shall the prince of this world be cast out~, and states that “the binding of the devil is his being prevented from the exercise of his whole power to seduce men.” Orthodox and Catholic Christians who have experienced the life of grace in the Church can well understand what Protestants cannot: that the “thousand years” (the whole indefinite period) of Christ’s reign with His saints and the limited power of the devil is NOW.

  45. KathJuliane November 21, 2008 @ 2:45 am

    Air Talmud: Chiliasm Part IV

    A related error, widespread among contemporary Protestants, is that of the “rapture.” Unheard of anywhere before the 19th century and doctrinally based on the visions of an ill, ecstatic woman, this belief has it that during the “great tribulation” near the end of the world (either before or after the “millennium”, according to various versions), true Christians will be “raptured” into the air to escape the sufferings of those who remain on earth. It is based on a misinterpretation of 1 Thes. 4:17, which teaches that ~at the very end of the world~ believers will be “caught up in the clouds [of heavenly witnesses], together with the resurrected dead, “to meet the Lord” Who is coming for judgment and the opening of the eternal Kingdom of Heaven.

    THE HOLY SCRIPTURE IS QUITE CLEAR FROM OUR LORD JESUS’ OWN PURE WORDS, THAT EVEN THE ELECT WILL SUFFER ON EARTH DURING THE “TRIBULATION” PERIOD, AND THAT FOR THEIR SAKE THIS PERIOD WILL BE SHORTENED. (Matt. 24:21-22). If people want to interpret this passage as meaning “flying away”, by all means, go right ahead. Be warned, however, that recorded in the lives of the Desert Fathers who lived in the frontiers where the ‘veil’ between the spiritual and earthly worlds is very thin, that at times if certain monks, especially inexperienced ones, were so deluded by spiritual pride, that the demons manifested as angels of light, and, promising direct ascension into heaven, bodily transported the hapless monks to a height high enough to drop them and kill them. More than once, the Desert Fathers had to bodily hold on to a deluded monk to keep the demons from “flying away” with him.

    The old chronicles describe all kinds of interesting things—little green, grey, and black ‘men’, for instance, and balls of light, and types of flying vehicles.

    Well, lets wind this up with a little diatribe on so-called predictive “date-setting” for the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, of which there are any number of interesting, but idle and fruitless speculative schemes, including the Jewish calendar, which is really the ancient 19-year Greek soli-lunar calendar that the Rabbis adopted when the Palestinian Patriarchate headed by a Nasi (Prince) of the Davidic line through Hillel the Babylonian to Gamaliel VI died out with his death, as he left no heirs, and the spiritual center of gravity settled among the yeshivas of Babylonian Jewry headed by the Gaon. In short, away from the Land, it was no longer possible to track by observation of the agricultural seasons in Judea and it was necessary to adopt an artificial calendar.

    Even this temptation is very old as Apostle Paul addressed it in his first epistle to the Thessalonian Christians at Chapter 5. They had been speculating about the return of the Lord and making their own predictions. Paul tells them ~you have no need~ for that kind of information, for it is not available. Does a thief in the night announce his coming? The disciples had gotten the same kind of answers to their questions on the Second Coming from Christ Himself (Matt 24:36; Acts 1:6,7).

    And suppose we know the end; what is this to us? Christians are called not to set dates but to make themselves ready to meet the Lord by being watchful and ~sober~ (v 6), not given to “dissipation of spirits” [spiritual drunkenness]. Our place is to be ceaselessly aware of the primacy of God’s Kingdom and to have full control over our spiritual faculties.

    The “Millenium” started about 2,000 years ago. Some folks are running just a tad late.

    Air Talmud signing off. God bless you all!

  46. joshua November 22, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

    Dear JathJuliane… ~~~ You must have faith, and believe what you – yourself have said : You were saved, you are being saved, you WILL be saved ! ~~~ Of this I am certain !

  47. joshua November 22, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

    Also K.J… ~~~ You are dead on !… If I say, “these plastic bags will stay in the ground for millenia.”… That means an UNDETERMINED period of thousands of years, not just 1 thousand !

  48. KathJuliane November 23, 2008 @ 11:36 am

    @Joshua, Credit goes to the Holy Fathers. I just pray to our Lord Jesus and study.

  49. Michael K. November 26, 2008 @ 7:25 pm

    Dear KathJuliane-

    Thanks for this very enlightening read, a real remedy for the Judaizers and their brand of utopian and carnal mysticism. The whole rapture heresy really caters to a self-satisfied and slothful spirit, not to one following the example of the real Messiah, and walking that extra mile for his neighbor. Why, if the world as we know it is about to end completely, and there is nothing we can do as we are already pre-destined either to rise to glory or to be tortured infernally, should we care about our responsibility for tomorrow. In fact, if the destruction of everything worthwhile means that the *144,000* ( which of course includes you and me, but nobody from that other church across the street) are about to get ecstatic bliss and a free pass out of this mad-house, why shouldn’t we want to help it come along in any little way we can, the sooner to enjoy our just rewards? ( Rewards for picking the exact right Protestant sect, from amongst the tens of thousands out there, the one that has only 144,000 true believers, and the only one that correctly predicts the date of the Second Coming.)

  50. iron mike November 27, 2008 @ 4:04 pm

    The problem is is that if you speak out against the Jews your a hater and a whole list of names, and you could possibly go to jail. They can do what ever they want.

    Who’s going to stop them? WW2 was started by jews by the way.

    Hitler was a puppet.

    6 million lives is a small price to pay for world domination.

  51. Erko December 1, 2008 @ 4:34 am

    First, I think this webpage does sum up things pretty well.

    Second, I object to the apparent position of the previous poster, that Hitler was a [Jewish[ puppet. What a load of baloney. For one thing, if he was, he would have left behind lots of documents the Jews could use to ‘prove’ that Jews had been exterminated in gas chambers. However, as we all know, he didn’t leave anything like that behind. Not a scrap. Which means he’s WASN’T working for the Jews.

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